About the internship for a non-EU doctor


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Expandera Trådhistorik: About the internship for a non-EU doctor

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av another visitor » 23 aug 2016, 11:10

Hello Fernando and welcome to this forum!

I've tried to answer your questions in the separate thread you created. Let us divert further discussion to that thread!

Best of luck :tur:

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av fernando » 11 aug 2016, 22:11

Hej everyone,
I have medical license from Socialstyrelsen,and recently i got job offer as underlakare in a private clinic(lakarhus),so i would like to know what is the difference between private and non private vard central in Sweden,is it ok for me to start my practice at private clinic?
Secondly what should underlakare do during his work,does he work with the specialist doctor Or he has to work on his own with the help of senior colleagues?
Tack sa mycket

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av visitor » 12 aug 2015, 15:18

I think you should read the links that are posted above. They are very good and explains the journey in a great way. After reading the one from Arbetsförmedlingen I can tell you that you can work as an underläkare when you passed the Swedish test and the TULE test. That process usually takes 2-3 years including the validation of your papers (1st step). After a year as underläkare you will have a greater chance for an AT-position.

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av another visitor » 12 aug 2015, 13:34

Since your last question is more of a legal/logistical one, and the likelyhood of anyone at this forum holding that kind of legal expertise low, my suggestion is that you contact Migrationsverket directly and ask them:
http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/ ... duals.html

Once Migrationsverket have answered your questions regaring work permit, it would be benefitial to others if you could post the information you gather here in this forum, in order to help others interested in doing the same journey as you.

Good luck :tur:

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av Stewie » 12 aug 2015, 11:00

So guys .. Anyone has an idea abiut my last question ?

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av Stewie » 11 aug 2015, 00:05

Hello again and thanks for your replies ,

I'm from Marocko :)
and i'm very intrested in research therefore , i couldnt find a better destination rather then Sweden !

To the friend who replied earlier , and quote :
" If you get a job you can apply for a work permit, but I am not sure if it is worth it because these positions are often temporary, usually six month, constructed to fill the gap between graduation and AT "

So What is the alternative ? If i don't get the work permit to start doing the underläkare ? And please can you clarify what kind of problems does it create afterwards ?

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av KBA » 10 aug 2015, 23:46

Hi Stewie!

Great fun that you want to come to Sweden! Which country are you from? And why do you want to move to Sweden? If you answer theese questions it will be easier too answer youre last question.

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av visitor » 10 aug 2015, 23:34

I will try to explain a little better but the system is a mess and I feel like you have to be a lawyer to understand it. You can apply for an underläkar position but it has to be announced correct in the whole European Union. Jobs at ams.se fulfill those requirements. This prevents you to informally search for jobs in Sweden, in fact it would be illegal. If you get a job you can apply for a work permit, but I am not sure if it is worth it because these positions are often temporary, usually six month, constructed to fill the gap between graduation and AT. This short time creates a problem with insurance, social care and permanent residency. My friend has lost and can’t hire good computer engineers from outside EU to his company because of these complex laws.

I talked to a friend who is underläkare in a town in the south west part of Sweden and he earns 27000 SEK a month. He think that when he gets his internship he can negotiate that up to around 32000 SEK

It will probably help but you will miss valuble time to practice and improve you language skills.

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av Stewie » 10 aug 2015, 23:14

Thank you so much dear friend for the very detailed response .. Words fail to describe my gratitude towards you guys .. !

However i didn't get this point :
" It is hard to get a work permit and permanent residency in Sweden for non-EU residents that are not refugees. It is a complex situation involving long handling periods, EU, severe competition for jobs, strong unions, and etcetera."

Does that mean i wont even be able to find an Underläkare position , due to the work permit ?
This is depressing ..

Hey is having a clinical experience in my country helpful in order to get directly to the internship ( AT) without having to do the Underläkare ?
In other words , does it increase my chances into bypassing the Underläkare periode ?

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

av another visitor » 10 aug 2015, 22:02

1. CV and other documents (question 1)
If you are referring to Socialstyrelsens application form for assessment of training from a country outside the EU/EEA - http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/applicati ... assessment - then no, that document is something Socialstyrelsen needs in order asses if your medical education is sufficient in order even qualify for future work within the Swedish health care system. The hospital/ regional county where you apply for an AT (or a job as underläkare) at will most likely want you to pass this step before applying. Thus, the confirmation that Socialstyrelsen will send you once you have passed this step is one of the documents you should include in your application for an AT-tjänst.

Regarding the CV, which is like a résumé, you can read more about that here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curriculum_vitae and search google for some examples. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a brief list of relevant education, relevant experiences and extracurricular activities. As a soon-to-be medical graduate, I'm sure you get the picture.

2. Securing a position as underläkare for a non-EU citizen (question 2)
This, I sadly know nothing about. For Swedish graduates it can roughly be said that the bigger the hospital, the bigger the need, yet also the competition. My suggestion is that, once have completed step 1 and 2 in Socialstyrelsens list (http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/applicati ... ofmedicine), you make a list of the fields you would like to work in, then pick a hospital and start emailing the different departments as you go, or the other way around. Sweden is a bit informal in that way - you sort of show an interest and if they need people they'll hire you.

3. Salary for underläkare (question 3 - OBS! numbers in this section are relevant to 2015)
Yes, you will get paid. Somewhere between 2600-3000€/month, before tax which is 32±1%. As a medical graduate you should never, I repeat NEVER, accept a salary below 2600€. Luckily, practically all health care in Sweden belongs to the public sector, so I find it very unlikely that you ever will be offered a salary below that amount.

In order to put the salary in perspective a one room apartment in an a bigger city often is at least 400€/month. One of the biggest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, approximates the cost of living for a single person (food, clothes, insurance, car/transportation) to 1000€/month, not including rent. So you do the math.

4. Special medicine program (question 4)
The way I understand it it works like this:
1. You finish Socialstyrelsen Step 1 and 2 (see link in section 2 above).
2. You then do the medical knowledge and skill test, which is called TULE.
Then you are either eligible to start AT or go to the "special medicine program for non-EU graduates/doctors" (aka. Kompletterande utbildning för läkare med utländsk examen från land utanför EU/EES - hence forward referred to as KUL). If you, during AT do not prove sufficient knowledge in medicine, your supervisor/employer might advise you to attend KUL, before continuing AT.

However, I am basing all of this on what I am making I have found in the info at the KUL-pages on the three universities providing the course, Socialstyrelsens web page and the forum underlakare.se (yes, I'm a total nerd who reads bureaucratic documents and forum threads when procrastination). Maybe someone else who's reading this can clarify if I got anything wrong?

5. Useful links (Question 5)
Sure, the road is long and windy. It's even windier for foreign graduates, especially those from outside the EU. But don't let that discourage you, there are plenty of people who have done the journey before.

Here are three links you might find useful:

The first is a blog, written by a Pakistani doctor who took TULE in 2013 and recently went to the interview for KUL. Read through his blog and maybe ask him about what he wish he'd known before he got here. :blinkar:

http://www.lansstyrelsen.se/stockholm/S ... re-eng.pdf
The second is from Arbetsförmedlingen,with lots of diagrams and good info about the process and tips for how to conduct it as smoothly as possible.

http://www.slf.se/upload/Lakarforbundet ... octors.pdf
The third is a document from the doctors union in Sweden, from 2001. In page 4 you have a nice flow-chart which gives you a picture of the process. The KUL is placed between "Test of medical knowledge and skill" and AT.

6. Rural areas (question 6).
I see now that someone already beat me to answering this question. Damn! :olycklig:
Joking aside, it is not theoretically impossible, but I would say highly unlikely.

Once again, good luck and please let us know how it goes as you move forward!