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Användare som besöker denna kategori: Inga registrerade användare och 1 gäst

About the internship for a non-EU doctor

Accreditation, permit of residence, Swedish language, licensing, specialist training, et cetera.

10 aug 2015, 12:56

Hello guys !
I am a Non-EU medical student in my final year , and i'm planning to Come to sweden in order to do my Specialty training :glad:
Now i have read about the requirements and all the steps in the socialstyrelsen Website but i still have a couple of questions ..
They mentioned that there are the steps 3a and 3b for doctors without any considerable medical experience ,
And i quote :

" Applies to doctors of medicine without considerable medical experience:

Step 3a. Pass a medical knowledge test

The purpose of the test is to ensure that you have basic medical knowledge equivalent to a person with a Swedish doctor of medicine degree. The test consists of a theoretical and a practical part.

Step 3b. Pass internship

The internship consists of at least 18 months of internship divided between different fields of practice. It concludes with a knowledge test. "


Now my 1st question is :
- are we supposed to pass two knowledge tests?
One in the step ( 3a ) , and the other when we finish the internship ( 3b ) ? Or is it just one of them ?

My 2nd question is :
- how do we get that 18 months internship ? Should we apply directly to hospitals for it ( just like applying for a specialty training position )?
or is it Socialstyrelsen that help us through that procedure ?

My third question :
- is it true that there is somehow the possibility of studying a year in a swedish medical shcool , at the end of which we do no longer have to pass the knowledge test ? If yes how much does it cost any ideas about that ?

Thanks in advance
Best regards
Stewie
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 8

10 aug 2015, 15:17

HI!

1. Yes, you must pass both tests.
2. Internships are announced two times a year by the hospitals. It is up to you to secure a post.
3. There is a special medicine program for graduates outside EU which spans over a year. After completing that you still have to do the internship in order to get your licence. The tuition fee for one year is about 250000 SEK.
visitor

10 aug 2015, 16:10

Thank you so much for your reply !

1-Now how do we know when the internships announcements have been made ? Is there a particular website for that ? A fixed date ?
Also what are the requirements to be able to get an internship ? A CV ? If so what can i write on it since i literally have no previous clinical experience what so ever ? ( i would be freshly graduated )

2-can you please tell me the Knowledge test is in which subjects ?

3-And about that special medicine program you have mentioned , its not obligatory to go through it if you pass the first knowledge test ?
it only makes you avoid it right ?

4-i've recently read that there is a shortage of doctors in Sweden , so do you think that its gonna be somehow easy to find an internship or even a ST in a hospital ? ( even though i'm a NON- EU )

5- what happens after we finish the internship ? Do we start directly looking for a ST position ?

I'm really sorry to ask so many questions .. as i am really excited to come to sweden and eventually work there as a doctor :).



5-
Stewie
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 8

10 aug 2015, 17:13

1. Internship
Internships (AT-tjänst in Swedish) are usually announced in mid/late-Fabruare and mid-September, either on the specific hospitals or the regional countys webpage. Almost all the positions are usually compiled at http://www.jobblanken.se/ , just pick AT-läkare below "Yrke", which is Swedish for "occupation".
When applying you will be required to send a CV. Depending on where you apply to, they might ask for more documents. The more rural you go, the less picky they are likely to be. Be prepared to be expected to have at least level B2 in Swedish proficenicy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages

Nota bene: it is unusual to get an AT-tjänst with no clinical experience what so ever, thus many Swedish graduates work as junior docotrs (underläkare in Swedish) for 6-18 months before they actualy get an AT-tjänst. Thus, if you don't get accepted right away, look into the possibility to obtain a job as underläkare.

2. The knowledge test.
This I sadly know nothing about. My recommendation is that you contact Socialstyrelsen and ask them. If you are luck, someone else on this forum might know the answer.

3. "Special medicine program"
I am assuming that the previous poster is refering to "Kompletterande utbildning för läkare med utländsk examen från land utanför EU/EES och Schweiz ", given at Sahlgrenska (Gothermurg), Karolinska (Stockholm) or Linköpings University (Linköping). Sadly, I have not been abel to find an english version of there webpages, so I recomend you google it and then use googel translate. Here is the ling to the page at Sahlgrenska http://sahlgrenska.gu.se/utbildning/kompl_utbildning/Kompletterande_utbildning_lakare

4. Shortage of doctors
In my humble opinion this is a MISCONCEPTION, and a common one at that, due to an unfortunate and imprecise phrasing. There is, in Sweden, no shortage of newly graduated doctors or doctors who within the last 3 years obtained there medical license. However, there is a shortage of specialized doctors (i.e. who have finished the 5 year specialization pogram, in Sweden know as ST). The areas currently experienceing a shortage of doctors, even in the urbanised areas and univeristy town, are; pathology, phsychiatry and general practice. As you go further out from these areas the scarcity of doctors in other fields, such as anesthesiology, internal medicin and surgery increases.

Which brings ut to your final question.

5. Finishing internship - obtaining a Swedish medical license.
Once you have gotten this far you will probably know what to do. Summarily, there are two ways of achieveing an ST-postion.
1. You have a killer CV and killer references, and just apply to an oppening (like you did with the AT).
2. You find a town you want to live in, and/or a career you want to pursue, then contact that clinic and ask if you can work there as a doctor, usually for 6 months. If you like eachother, they might offer you a ST-tjänst (5 yars). You might get to deduct your previous 6 months.

Good luck :tur:
another visitor

10 aug 2015, 17:58

Thanks a lot dear friend !

i still have a some more questions :D

1- so can you give me more informations about the CV and those documents ? ( are those documents the same that Socialstyrelsen requires ? )

2- is it hard to get an underläkare position for a non-EU ? ( if i cannot get an AT-tjänst )

3- does the underläkare get paid ? if yes can you please tell me aproximatly how much (will it be enough to live overthere ?)

4- concerning that Special medicine program , is it obligatory or just an option , in order to not have to take the knowledge test ?

5-i thought it was all about the Swedish language and clinical skills .. now it seems a little bit harder to me , i was afraid not to find any ST position .. now i see that even the Internship can be a problem ..
Stewie
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 8

10 aug 2015, 18:01

6- what about the periphiral -Rural areas ? can i have a chance at having AT-tjänst directly without having to go through being underläkare ?
Stewie
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 8

10 aug 2015, 20:11

1. A CV, curriculum vitae, is a document in which you write about yourself and your skills. It is sent together with a covering letter and sometimes with documents that proof you have the skills you claim. It is something you always send when you apply for a job.

2. It is hard to get a work permit and permanent residency in Sweden for non-EU residents that are not refugees. It is a complex situation involving long handling periods, EU, severe competition for jobs, strong unions, and etcetera.

3. Underläkare is a temporary position with restrictions and they get paid. I am not sure how much. Maybe about 20-25k per month before tax which is about 33%

4. As I understand it, it is an option Socialstyrelsen can recommend/order you to do if they find your skills insufficient.

5. It is all about the language and clinical skills. Make sure you learn and practice Swedish every day. If you can study Swedish at your university do it. The internship is the greatest obstacle for all of us. It has been like that for years.

6. Remember that you competition probably have at least six month of work experience.

I don’t want to scare you but keep in mind that this process is infamous for taking years. But if you are really motivated you will hold out.
visitor

10 aug 2015, 20:22

Stewie skrev:2-can you please tell me the Knowledge test is in which subjects ?
The TULE test, which must be passed if the medical degree is from a non-EU/EEA country, basically covers the clinical part of the medical degree program - you can think of it as Sweden's equivalent of the USMLE step 2, sort of (not as difficult and only for non-EU/EEA graduates).

The AT test is taken after completing the 18-month AT internship. It could probably be compared to the USMLE step 3 (except that it is not as difficult and that a medical license in any other EU country allows you to bypass it as you don't have to complete the AT to begin with). Upon passing the AT test, you can apply for a Swedish medical license.
Användarvisningsbild
Nils
driver läkarstudent.se
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 4635

10 aug 2015, 20:49

Thank you guys for your much appreciated replies !

However i didn't get this point :
" It is hard to get a work permit and permanent residency in Sweden for non-EU residents that are not refugees. It is a complex situation involving long handling periods, EU, severe competition for jobs, strong unions, and etcetera."

Does that mean i wont even be able to find an Underläkare position , due to the work permit ?
This is depressing ..

And can somebody please confirm whether the salary for an Underläkare is as the friend above has mentioned ..

Thank you guys ..
Stewie
Läkarstudent
Inlägg: 8

10 aug 2015, 21:02

1. CV and other documents (question 1)
If you are referring to Socialstyrelsens application form for assessment of training from a country outside the EU/EEA - http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/applicationforswedishlicencetopractiseothercountries/assessment - then no, that document is something Socialstyrelsen needs in order asses if your medical education is sufficient in order even qualify for future work within the Swedish health care system. The hospital/ regional county where you apply for an AT (or a job as underläkare) at will most likely want you to pass this step before applying. Thus, the confirmation that Socialstyrelsen will send you once you have passed this step is one of the documents you should include in your application for an AT-tjänst.

Regarding the CV, which is like a résumé, you can read more about that here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curriculum_vitae and search google for some examples. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a brief list of relevant education, relevant experiences and extracurricular activities. As a soon-to-be medical graduate, I'm sure you get the picture.


2. Securing a position as underläkare for a non-EU citizen (question 2)
This, I sadly know nothing about. For Swedish graduates it can roughly be said that the bigger the hospital, the bigger the need, yet also the competition. My suggestion is that, once have completed step 1 and 2 in Socialstyrelsens list (http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/applicationforswedishlicencetopractiseothercountries/doctorofmedicine), you make a list of the fields you would like to work in, then pick a hospital and start emailing the different departments as you go, or the other way around. Sweden is a bit informal in that way - you sort of show an interest and if they need people they'll hire you.


3. Salary for underläkare (question 3 - OBS! numbers in this section are relevant to 2015)
Yes, you will get paid. Somewhere between 2600-3000€/month, before tax which is 32±1%. As a medical graduate you should never, I repeat NEVER, accept a salary below 2600€. Luckily, practically all health care in Sweden belongs to the public sector, so I find it very unlikely that you ever will be offered a salary below that amount.

In order to put the salary in perspective a one room apartment in an a bigger city often is at least 400€/month. One of the biggest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, approximates the cost of living for a single person (food, clothes, insurance, car/transportation) to 1000€/month, not including rent. So you do the math.


4. Special medicine program (question 4)
The way I understand it it works like this:
1. You finish Socialstyrelsen Step 1 and 2 (see link in section 2 above).
2. You then do the medical knowledge and skill test, which is called TULE.
Then you are either eligible to start AT or go to the "special medicine program for non-EU graduates/doctors" (aka. Kompletterande utbildning för läkare med utländsk examen från land utanför EU/EES - hence forward referred to as KUL). If you, during AT do not prove sufficient knowledge in medicine, your supervisor/employer might advise you to attend KUL, before continuing AT.

However, I am basing all of this on what I am making I have found in the info at the KUL-pages on the three universities providing the course, Socialstyrelsens web page and the forum [url]underlakare.se[/url] (yes, I'm a total nerd who reads bureaucratic documents and forum threads when procrastination). Maybe someone else who's reading this can clarify if I got anything wrong?

5. Useful links (Question 5)
Sure, the road is long and windy. It's even windier for foreign graduates, especially those from outside the EU. But don't let that discourage you, there are plenty of people who have done the journey before.

Here are three links you might find useful:

http://drneeno2.blogspot.com/
The first is a blog, written by a Pakistani doctor who took TULE in 2013 and recently went to the interview for KUL. Read through his blog and maybe ask him about what he wish he'd known before he got here. :blinkar:

http://www.lansstyrelsen.se/stockholm/SiteCollectionDocuments/Sv/manniska-och-samhalle/integration/tillvaxt-och-egenforsorjning/Lakare-tredje-land-for-lakare-eng.pdf
The second is from Arbetsförmedlingen,with lots of diagrams and good info about the process and tips for how to conduct it as smoothly as possible.

http://www.slf.se/upload/Lakarforbundet/Trycksaker/PDFer/In%20English/Immigrant%20doctors.pdf
The third is a document from the doctors union in Sweden, from 2001. In page 4 you have a nice flow-chart which gives you a picture of the process. The KUL is placed between "Test of medical knowledge and skill" and AT.


6. Rural areas (question 6).
I see now that someone already beat me to answering this question. Damn! :olycklig:
Joking aside, it is not theoretically impossible, but I would say highly unlikely.


Once again, good luck and please let us know how it goes as you move forward!
another visitor